Cardinal Position

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Cardinal Position

Postby Lawz » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:54 am

What was the rationale for the cardinal position to be structured that they name their predecesscor (when they choose to relinquish their position) and not let it be an elected position as the King is?
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Re: Cardinal Position

Postby bbhbc10 » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:56 am

at least you didn't face the problem i did when mine decided to pause indifinitly without naming another person to do the job months ago...but at least they did finally unpause long enough to name someone else :whistle:
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Re: Cardinal Position

Postby cinneach » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:01 am

I think this is an interesting scenario that the coders have put in the game.

In the Middle Ages, the Church had an immense amount of power, often more than the King/Queen of the day. It was almost an imperative of the times that the Church and the State worked in relative harmony, because if they didn't, all hell could break loose. The Cardinals of the Churches in the Middle Ages were never elected, instead their successor was appointed, often without any input from any other member of the Kingdom.

I see that the coders, to an extent, have replicated this, and I think its a great element of the game!
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Re: Cardinal Position

Postby bbhbc10 » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:25 pm

I think this is an interesting scenario that the coders have put in the game.


well, it does pose some interesting problems..myself being a cardinal, i could tech. hold the rest of the game "hostage" by firing all of the bishops and never hold another mass effictively stopping anyone from progressing in the quests that has not done so yet until i decide to give up the position or evolve to the next age...

then everyone will have to scramble playing catch up if they want to evolve thus keeping the population of age 6 to a minimum until the rest catch up in the quests and seeing as how attending the masses are part of the 2nd quest, that could take some a long time to do...
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Re: Cardinal Position

Postby dubjean » Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:11 pm

In the medieval ages, the cardinal was appointed and was permanently attached to the church, so this is in keeping with that. If they weren't permanent then they wouldn't be Cardinals, would they? ;)

The pope is the only one that can depose a cardinal, so I would guess that admin is the pope. :lol:
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Re: Cardinal Position

Postby cinneach » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:10 am

Looks like we might have our first Pope Christopher of HA :)
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Re: Cardinal Position

Postby bbhbc10 » Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:43 pm

1 in 15 chance the k/q can overthrow a cardinal...wonder what happens to the k/q if they fail...what's to stop them from trying 15 times in a row or more until they are sucessful?

a simple loss of energy isn't a big problem since we can buy all the energy we can afford to use :hmmm:
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Re: Cardinal Position

Postby cinneach » Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:09 pm

Interesting change to the coding!!!!

Perhaps it should be extended slightly further.......

Can the coders consider that the Monarch and the Cardinal CANNOT be the same person?
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Re: Cardinal Position

Postby Lawz » Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:36 am

Or a multi of the King or Queens character? I guess it wouldn't work if once a cardinal is overthrown, the king is named cardinal?
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Re: Cardinal Position

Postby dubjean » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:42 am

I'm currently both the Queen and Cardinal, and have never heard any complaints from anyone in my Clan over it. I don't think the couple of us that have both positions have ever or would ever intentionally damage our Clans, or fire our bishops so we couldn't have mass. I believe the problem would be worse if a Constable or Marshal would be Cardinal as then that person could set a war and then proclaim it a holy one. The only control I have with regard to being both Queen and Cardinal is the Clan finances, and that's no different than any other ages. The Queen/King is elected so I assume the Clan would trust them with that, if not then they probably shouldn't have elected them to start with.

What this change does is allows a Queen/King to get rid of a paused or dying Cardinal. It is up to a new King/Queen to work with the existing Cardinal for the best of the Clan, after all, this is the Age that needs members of a Clan to work together instead of everyone just doing their own thing.
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Re: Cardinal Position

Postby Lawz » Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:53 am

It does go beyond the paused and dying though dubjean - if a King/Queen decides they don't like the cardinal for whatever reason, they can 'revolt'. What are the consequences for the King/Queen if they try and overthrow the cardinal?
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Re: Cardinal Position

Postby psye » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:07 pm

dubjean wrote:... after all, this is the Age that needs members of a Clan to work together instead of everyone just doing their own thing.


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Cardinal Position

Postby dubjean » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:05 pm

I do understand that, Lawz. You have 2 scenarios though.. 1 is having a king/queen that will waste clan funds just to eliminate a cardinal because they don't like them, and the 2nd is getting rid of a paused or dying one. TP had the 2nd problem, so now people want the king/queen to personally be held liable for getting rid of someone that has become inactive. I'm saying the people of the Clan have to be careful who they elect so the 1st scenario doesn't happen and that may mean more people becoming involved. Most clan funds are in the church so the only funds available for the "revolt" would be any new funds, since I doubt a cardinal that was being overthrown would give the king/queen money to do this. Also, if the king/queen and cardinal are the same person, they will not be revolting against themselves.
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Re: Cardinal Position

Postby bbhbc10 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:02 pm

You have 2 scenarios though


there is a 3rd (or more)...what if the cardinal decided to withhold money from the clan so that repairs couldn't be made to the schools, defences, etc? the architects would have to rely only on the donations of people, villages and the market tax to make the money necessary for the repairs which could take a while to gather if there were a lot that needed to be done.

as a cardinal, i would never stop holding mass just so no one could progress in the game (unless our number of believers prevented it) or withhold money from the clan so the schools would become useless creating another situation where nobody could progress there either..

no one person should be able to hold a permanant position as these situations could arise in the future with no way to stop them...hopefully this will never happen but we all know how spitefull and vengefull some people can be..


on a side note..lets create another scenario

if you are the cardinal and an architect in a clan...you could empty out all of the your church's money and give it to yourself, give the cardinal position to another person then leave your clan and join another with all of the money you have just stolen leaving your previous clan bankrupt...all within a matter of minutes
Last edited by double on Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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