Losing Church believers

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Re: Losing Church believers

Postby double » Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:24 am

well, can't really force them to visit hospital when hurt or wish them all the worst everyday :twisted: etc :whistle: , but donation-wise It's more like how you can get them to do it as per kingdom donation in other ages. whether or not the effect will be great, I'm not sure :D

but the thing I'm more concerned about is how when a kingdom is down in the doldrums , and with no relic etc to entice followers, how are they going to get out of the mess? I'm not saying to set them right on track to be able to wage holy wars or something like that (I believe the criteria amount increased since the last time I know of from game day 0 ,according to dubjean ), just that it'll be hard or impossible for them to hold mass for all the newer players who needs to do the second quest regardless of their kingdom origin, and of course the ability to donate to their church henceforth.

As mentioned , the donations , and mass seem to be the easier way out to get believers since the number of people utilizing hospitals, beg , wed, are all in the single digit daily so it won't make much of a difference frankly speaking. Inquisitions are also hard since new players will find it easy to get faith points from villages and it will take many mass to reduce their starting faith (plus considering the fact they do not go to villages and mass at all). Not to mention at this point , RB can't hold any. Donations wise, you'll need like 400 - 500 donators for RB in a day to be able to let them get enough believers to hold a mass, and you can see from the average population alone in each kingdom that the figure is roughly 230 for each kingdom, unless everyone in other kingdoms does it (I did donate for a couple of days :ninja: but of course it only adds a measly amount of believers per person and the daily loss seems a lot :lol: ) That said, even the number of donators for the best kingdom is around 37 on a fine day so it probably wont help in the end. Strategy-wise, it may be possible - I can't be sure , but it will take some huge effort to do it and possibly a long time ? I'm pretty sure they won't be able to do it at the moment as their numbers hops between 100 + and 0 daily.

As for maintaining the believers numbers, I can't really tell much - haven't been looking at it. Since 3 kingdoms are in a seemingly fine position, the other 3 are in 'ok' situation and 1 in a not-too-good-but-still-slightly-ok-situation and the last one in :ninja: state. I'm only considering the situation about the last one (RB's) and the part about how they are going to get out of this , regardless of where the blame should be on, since it will probably affect all other newer players later on due to their inability to conduct mass.
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Re: Losing Church believers

Postby Smerk » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:24 am

I guess I'm just saddened by the scope of the 'unwritten' Believers rules. Its funny - its very clear-cut about what can gain or lose Believers. +1, +2. But apparently there is a much larger game afoot on how we do comparatively that make all of the official gains/losses irrelevant. Nice.
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Re: Losing Church believers

Postby double » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:37 am

It is as what bbhbc10 quoted in the first post, just that the magnitude for "To lack generosity in donations, sustenance and care. " isn't explicit - you can see that as a Bishop yourself. well, I guess you cannot expect every single thing to be put down clearly, like how much you will lose for going hungry, how much damage a ram will do on a building during wars.
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Re: Losing Church believers

Postby bbhbc10 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:31 pm

You lose followers for various reasons. If the church of your Kingdom is among the least generous, ie doesn't give out money to it's citizens, then you will lose followers. On the other hand, if the citizens of a Kingdom are scroungers and don't give to the church, it will lose followers too. Same for the number of people healed at hospital, pitance handed out, how many beggars are taken care of, how many heretics are checked, etc.


this is the part that get me..if we have greedy people that won't donate to the church, then we should just lose out on getting believers from that...not punished again daily because we are one of the churches that has the least amount of donators in a day..

as far as the hospital goes..who wants to spend 4 hours waiting to get healed when you can make your own medicine or just buy it from the market? I would suggest making other thing like mining, logging, etc will get you injured but we would still be in the same situation that no one wants to spend that amount of time waiting to get healed...unless you allow it to where the Bishops can heal anyone that is in the hospital. :hmmm:


10.10.1210 at 11:10 Rumour has it that the church has received XXX crowns from XX generous donators over the last 24 hours.
10.10.1210 at 11:10 Rome is proud of the believers of this church as yesterday they were the more generous.
10.10.1210 at 11:10 The hospital welcomed 0 patient(s) yesterday. The money raised for the care amounted to 0 crown(s).
10.10.1210 at 6:10 The accountant says the beggars received 15 crowns during the last 24 hours.
10.10.1210 at 6:10 This is the church that gave the needy the most meals during the last day.


i can't speak for how many begged for food, i asked everyone that is either very hungry or famished to go and beg for it although there is a chance you will still get thrown in jail..

as for the donations, we only had 7-8 more donate than usually do on any given day..and the number of people that begged for money stayed the same, average 0-1 daily and the hospital remains at 0 daily.
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Re: Losing Church believers

Postby Smerk » Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:37 pm

Hey everyone! I'm sorry if I'm coming across as grumpy - this is really bothering me!
I checked our Rumor Mill log and have NEVER SEEN anything like those lines saying we are the top (or the bottom!) contributors to donations or feedings. I would think if there is a "You are the top xxxxx" there should be a "You are the bottom xxxxx" so at least you know WHY you are losing huge chunks of Believers!
I think the thing that is bothering me the most about this is the relative scale of the modifications. We have been focusing our efforts on fixing this problem, so lets say we start getting 25 people a day donating. This gets us 125 Believers. This places us firmly in the middle of the relative scale, so no modifier affects us. Tomorrow we don't do as well, we only get 5: +25 = 150. But because every other Kingdom had a good day, we are again at the bottom, and we LOSE 300! Wow - not much motivation to keep donating when it can all be wiped out the next day!
Its one thing to have a bad day when you have a decent balance. A fluctuation of +/- 300 is not bad if you have 5000 in the Believer Bank!
I think our downfall was we tried to run 2 Masses a week: -5000! And Masses are not net-zero things, you need over 300 attendees to do so, and I don't think anyone is there. In fact, I think the whole Believer calculation is messed up - I think we will not be the only ones to be dragged into the basement by these calculations! Also heaven forfend that your Clergy change, the new ones will have no idea what hit them!

So what I would humbly ask is two-fold:
1) Better notifications of both the good and bad affects of relative Believer affects (ok, just adding the "You are at the bottom of number of donations" or "You are at the bottom of number of sustenence".)
2) recalculation of the factor/scale of this affect. If you have a balance of 5000, a bad day could mean +/-100 or more. But if your balance is < 1000, the scale should not be +/- 300! Maybe a "if (abs(Modifier) > Believers * .10)" check to make sure the scope isn't beyond 10% of their Believer balance......

Thanks!

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Re: Losing Church believers

Postby bbhbc10 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:26 pm

i'm tired of fighting this problem..we can't be the top church in donations daily, most beggers, etc so i will just conduct business as normal and whom ever donates, begs etc. does and if we continue to lose hundreds of believers daily...so be it

to all those who have not passed the 2nd quest or are waiting on the RB to hold mass to continue with the quest...feel sorry for ya as you will not be able to evolve to age 6 when it opens...

shouldn't be long before the TG won't be able to hold mass either and we will probably follow a month or so after that.

maybe if we had as many players as the french game had we wouldn't be in this situation but we don't and we are.
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Re: Losing Church believers

Postby stig » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:12 am

I have read all the previous comments regarding the loss of believers and I am becoming increasingly concerned that each day brings a new loss. For no obvious reason 133 believers were removed from the church at the church update even though we had had donations, beggars and a mass during the day before. What is the criteria for losing believers :doi:

Also I had a complaint from a loyal citizen that they went to the hospital following a hunting accident and was told they would have to wait 8 hours to be healed :hmmm: As they can be miraculously healed in a short time or buy potions I see the hospital as a place no-one will want to visit even though they would like to so the kingdom can have 8 believers.

The will is there amongst my citizens to help but they see it all go to waste the next day and no amount of promoting donations, begging, sustenance or the hospital will make them feel it is worthwhile.

Things are coming to a grinding halt with the second quest because there are players wishing to go to mass at BB and as of this morning they have the grand total of 58 believers. It is a downwards spiral for them and it distresses me to see this happening. Do we want folk to leave the game because they can no longer progress :(

I know every leader of every kingdom is continuously promoting the need for believers but I do not think there are the numbers of players who have completed the second quest to sustain any real increase in believers.

I will pray for a resolution in this matter as soon as it can be found :wish:
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Re: Losing Church believers

Postby bbhbc10 » Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:18 pm

maybe someone should start an ingame chat thread to get those who are waiting on the RB to hold mass to leave a message/ their name or something just so we can actually see how many are wanting to continue with the 2nd quest...i've had 5 so far asking me about it and i'm sure there are more in my clan that haven't spoken up yet
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Re: Losing Church believers

Postby Smerk » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:15 pm

Just to let everyone know we ARE ACTIVELY TRYING to increase our numbers! We were at 150 two days ago, only to see them all wiped out. :violin:

The really funny thing is that NONE of the churches needs the money!!!

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Re: Losing Church believers

Postby dubjean » Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:00 am

Great Job, RB, at trying to increase believers. The money may be irrelevant but the believers obtained is definitely not. It does not just affect masses but how many holy wars you can have so they are very important!
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Re: Losing Church believers

Postby Quark » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:59 pm

You can make a donation to more than one church at day, so maybe we could start a campaign to get people to donate to RB [or any other church running low] as well as their home church
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Re: Losing Church believers

Postby August » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:34 am

Also, I'm sure a lot of people aren't aware that they may get a rep point or two by donating to the church. Maybe if the various kingdoms put this info on the news page or in one of the messages people who didn't previously donate may start doing so in order to gain rep points. This is one of the reasons why I always try to donate every day (prior to knowing that it would also help gain believers).
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Re: Losing Church believers

Postby bbhbc10 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:24 am

sorry August..i accidentally took that out of the news page that you May get a rep pt :oops:
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Re: Losing Church believers

Postby Quark » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:15 am

at 2010-10-23 at 1500hrs TG had 4254 Believers
by 2010-10-23 at 2032hrs we were down to 3951 believers that's a loss of 303 believers in 5.5 hours!!!

there is nothing in our rumor mill that suggests where they went or why,
we had a mass the day before, so we had been gaining believers, plus there were donations.
these are the remarks from the rumor mill for that day. most are from before 1500 when we had the most believers. there is only one remark in the rumor mill during the time we lost believers.
23.10.1210 at 19:10 The mother superior in charge of feeding the needy tells you she fed 0 hungry mouths at a cost of 0 crown(s).
23.10.1210 at 11:10 Rumour has it that the church has received 520 crowns from 28 generous donators over the last 24 hours.
23.10.1210 at 11:10 The hospital welcomed 0 patient(s) yesterday. The money raised for the care amounted to 20 crown(s).
23.10.1210 at 6:10 The accountant says the beggars received 180 crowns during the last 24 hours.
23.10.1210 at 6:10 This is the church that gave the needy the most meals during the last day.
23.10.1210 at 0:00 The hospital upkeep cost the church 18 crowns.


there were 30 beggars during that 5.5 hours that were all given 15 crowns each,
according to the accounts page we should gain one believer for each beggar we give to, not lose 10.1 believers per beggar. yet that looks like what happened

23.10 18:30 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.
23.10 15:03 [Church] The church you represent gave 15 crowns to a beggar.

I'm not sure why the remarks about giving to beggars show up in the Cardinal's personal remarks and not the rumor mill, but that is where they show up.

After seeing we had lost so many believers, I scheduled our next mass, while I still had enough believers to do it,
that brought us down to 1451 believers
as of 24.10 02:10 we are up to 1526 believers

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Re: Losing Church believers

Postby bbhbc10 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:54 am

23.10.1210 at 6:10 This is the church that gave the needy the most meals during the last day.


what i want to know is how you got this event when i gave the same amount of meals to people in the same time line as you did.


we both have the same event from the day before:

22.10.1210 at 19:10 The mother superior in charge of feeding the needy tells you she fed 2 hungry mouths at a cost of 10 crown(s).
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